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Post by Declan Tribal on Nov 18, 2007 15:23:17 GMT
Discuss.
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Post by Allen on Nov 18, 2007 16:12:45 GMT
For those that are too lazy to find it themselvesI find your arguement plausible, and have little to add to that particular bit. Although the character that the statue is standing on resembles a cat. Perhaps a plug for the species? (A rat stepping on a cat to reach godhood?)
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Post by captainkitsune on Nov 18, 2007 16:14:39 GMT
Intresting...Wish i hadn't lent out my copy of FFIX now =P
Personally i wouldn't have thought rats would need help with multiplying, perhaps it was to symbolise how seriously they take matrimony and the crossing symbols indicates how much they believe in companionship.
or somthing.
i dunno.
Been up to long and i can't actually remember said bit so i'm just trying to sound smart. *cough* >.>
edit: AH THAT BIT. Thank you Allen.
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Eudemic
Moderator
Your Local Sword-Fighter
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Post by Eudemic on Nov 18, 2007 17:22:21 GMT
I support Dec's hypotheses. More to come later, me promise.
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Post by ajcrescent on Nov 19, 2007 2:15:35 GMT
I highly doubt they're a bunch of sex fiends with a severe overpopulation crisis just because they apparently had some kind of love deity. And don't bring in the "they're based on rats" argument. That's really a very poor argument.
And for those about to use it, the "Kal and Wei" argument doesn't work either--we established long ago that those kids could not have been their so-called "newborns".
That seems a bit more likely.
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Post by Declan Tribal on Nov 19, 2007 13:38:54 GMT
Uh... it's a rather plausible argument when you think of it - the male and female sword hilts crossing one another wasn't designed by sheer coincidence. It would most likely symbolize courtship, given the, ahem... "phallic" design of those hilts.
Furthermore, regardless of the debate surrounding Wei and Kal's children, Wei was pregnant at the time, which further adds more weight to the deity in question being a possible god of reproduction. Again, I don't see that as coincidental.
And finally, the whole "rodents breed like mad" analogy works, because Burmecians are rat-like in nature, so it would make logical sense if reproduction played a large part in their society. In fact, breeding might have been heavily encouraged, especially after the destruction of Burmecia. Just because Burmys worship a deity based on fornication doesn't necessarily make them sex fiends - it might've been promoted, but their whole lifestyle doesn't revolve around breeding non-stop. Just look at Ancient Rome or Greece to name a few examples. Their societies revolve around promoting sexual activities, but it does not revolve around that completely.
I think your argument is a rather poor one in and of itself.
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Post by ajcrescent on Nov 19, 2007 20:18:46 GMT
Uh... it's a rather plausible argument when you think of it - the male and female sword hilts crossing one another wasn't designed by sheer coincidence. It would most likely symbolize courtship, given the, ahem... "phallic" design of those hilts. They could symbolize several things, they don't necessarily have to symbolize having sex. That's pretty much all I was saying, aside from that bit at the end with my personal opinion about which theory sounded more likely. And I doubt the shape of the hilts was meant to be interpreted that way. I've never thought of them as being shaped like that, so I think that particular part of the argument all depends on how dirty the mind of the player is. It seemed like a poor argument because you appeared to be suggesting that because they look like rats, they must also act like them. Provided that's what it is. Yeah, I was expecting that kind of comment from you... >_>
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Post by Allen on Nov 19, 2007 21:18:02 GMT
Don't make me lock you two in separate rooms! I will if I have to!
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Post by ajcrescent on Nov 19, 2007 21:33:36 GMT
Don't make me lock you two in separate rooms! I will if I have to! Sorry, it's just that it always seems like, even if it isn't intentional, Dec has to make me feel down in some way whenever I try to contribute to a discussion...
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Post by Declan Tribal on Nov 19, 2007 21:47:43 GMT
No. Your argument was a poor one because you did not provide anything substantial that would strengthen your argument. You can't just say "Eww, I don't think Burmecians would ever do that" without more to back yourself up than just saying "Eww, I don't think Burmecians would ever do that". Which... is what you've done. You haven't provided anything remotely solid or convincing to show that it's a weak argument.
Furthermore, it is not okay to snipe at or attack an opponent during debates like this - it's a foolhardy tactic that borders on flaming and is not allowed. Period. Perhaps I didn't intend on attacking you - just your points. You, however, decided to be a smart alec by slipping in a comment that is both unnecessary and full of vindictive. That is not on, my friend, and I highly recommend that you watch your tone from now on.
Count this as a verbal warning.
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Post by Declan Tribal on Nov 19, 2007 23:00:22 GMT
Also, to get back onto the topic of things...
Dude, research ancient civilizations. You'll see that most of them have a deity that revolves around sex, fertility and/or reproduction. That doesn't necessarily make everyone within that culture or in the ancient world for that matter a sex-crazed pervert. Also, given the amount of spears and statues carrying weapons around the city - I'd assume that they'd worship a war god more than a sex god (and no, it's not Fratley, kthx).
As I said, reproduction was most likely encouraged, but not routinely practiced - marked difference, there. If it was, you might have a point in saying that it would lead to population overgrowth problems. I would assume that there would have been limits set in place as to how large your average Burmecian family would be, to prevent such a disaster from occuring. Then again, Burmecia is a rather large city (though not every bit is shown in game, mind you).
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Post by Allen on Nov 19, 2007 23:23:50 GMT
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Post by captainkitsune on Nov 20, 2007 0:21:59 GMT
I hadn't noticed the hilts before Something did cross my mind, though it isn't probablly as likely as what Dec is suggesting as i have no facts XD Well it's holding swords, could symbolise strength maybe? Something the knights pray to before battle for luck or somthing...Though it wouldn't really explain the male/female thing, unless you say it could mean strength for the two but it would seem sorta a pointless decoration. The stepping on the cat could be "overcoming" the enemy symbolically? PLUS i can't recall if Freya was the only female dragoon knight. (Not played it in a while *points to earlier post*) Eh well it was a passing thought. Is it me or is the statue sorta...lizard-esque? So if anyone knows any ancient facts concerning that and them been worshipped, maybe that'd work =P
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Eudemic
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Post by Eudemic on Nov 20, 2007 0:27:09 GMT
This might be redundant here, but this is important to bear in mind: 'sex being an important part of religion' is not 'sex is the most important part of Burmecian culture as a whole', and that not all sex is reproductive.
That said, marriages were at least occasionally held at Gizmaluke's Grotto. I don't recall seeing anything more provocative than a bell there, nor anything resembling the statue of the god in the Burmecian temple (the statues in the storage area with the moogles did not resemble the one in the city). Take from this what you will, but I believe it is because the temple statue related more to the less platonic aspects of male/female relationships.
Edit: Maybe not a lizard, but a dragon? Can't think of a lizard with horns off hand, and we all agree that dragons played some role in Burmy culture/religion/mythos.
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Post by daimaoumyutsuu on Nov 21, 2007 5:57:07 GMT
Burmecians esteem a class of knights centered on dragons, dragon techniques, and named dragon knights. Check. One of the Burmecian culture spots houses a dragon. Check. Two dragon breeds live near Burmecia. Check. Statues in Burmecia appear slightly more lizardlike than Burmecians. Check.
I'm inclined to say that statue strongly represents something draconian in their culture. That it seems a fertility god would link dragons to fertility in Burmecian culture. Fertility deities usually are involved in the creation of their culture's people. This find is one more little straw that makes my fanfic idea a little more plausible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2007 9:32:06 GMT
Here's a thought. The name Freya came from a Norse God, who I read somewhere was the goddess of love and fertility. Perhaps the statue is a representation of Freya in some way? XD
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Post by M&M&M on Nov 22, 2007 8:42:50 GMT
I like where this thread is going... Proceed...
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Alorin
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Post by Alorin on Nov 30, 2007 1:50:01 GMT
Intresting...Wish i hadn't lent out my copy of FFIX now =P ...Personally i wouldn't have thought rats would need help with multiplying... I don't think they would, but then again many religions are not based around what they need help with, but rather glorifying what they can do and having poetic representation of the culture's strong points. Rodents are very prolific and it only makes sense that they would see something holy and metaphorical in that. Thus, they had a fertility god, a deity manifest that would protect it. It's like humans. We're pretty good at war. We don't need help making war. But we sure do have a lot of war gods, don't we?
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Post by LancerZero on Dec 1, 2007 18:15:15 GMT
This is relevant to my interests.
Couldn't have said it better myself. That's how I view it. Umm...man I'm quiet today.
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Post by Burmecian Soldier Dan on Dec 3, 2007 8:34:04 GMT
I've just had a thought. Since this statue is near the end of the level I was thinking something. Maybe it isn't a fertility god but maybe the god of Dragon knights, like a patron saint. Maybe when Dragon knights are inaugurated, where they are sworn into office as protecters of the king in front of it, like how people are married at an alter, some powerful symbolic symbol which gives a certain union power and shows that it's offical. The wavy swords are cerimonal in purpose as they are used in sikhism but thats just my thoughts and the male/female symbols is a way of saying neither sex is better then the other, they are one and the same. The crossing of the swords shows that any sex may work together and that both male and female must work together. Thats what I can deduce from it.
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